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GoatOvaries";p="863996 wrote:

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="863983 wrote:I don't even like RATM. I just miss arguing with people, yknow... since Clayton got really stupid.

I never was, and never will be stupid.

That's a pretty stupid thing to say.

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="863625 wrote:Isn't increasing social awareness the first step for ANY social issues campaigning?

Yeah and look at the great leaps forward America has made socially since Rage started raising awareness.

Launch Radio Networks reports: Tom Morello and Zack De La Rocha, the guitarist and singer, respectively, of RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE, took to the stage together for the first time in nearly seven years in Chicago on Saturday (April 14). Their appearance was part of a demonstration and rally-turned-celebration for the Coalition of Immokalee Workers, an organization of immigrant farm workers who pick vegetables for big businesses like McDonald's.

The rally was meant to be a protest, but just before the march was to begin, a McDonald's rep told the crowd their demands had been met. So the rally, due to inclement weather and that fact that it was now a celebration of the news of the agreement, moved indoors at the House of Blues

pics please.

Jeff";p="865703 wrote: As I've actually been saying, I'm actually quite convinced they have not raised any awareness. This is based on my interaction with Rage fans, as well as the fact that the public isn't aware of shit.

Oh yeah, you've got us there.

I bow to your watertight research.

Listen Jeff. Every time that RATM appears under a charity banner, they make money for it. They are often the headliners, and atttract a much larger crowd than would otherwise attend. A proportion of the funds raised go to the cause of the day, and anyone who attends gets bombarded with signage, and hears information about the cause via a spokesperson, and sometimes from the onstage performers themselves.

So, apart from money and mass advertising, RATM hasn't done shit.

Oh, and to echo your sentiment, DAMN THEM for promoting (and raising funds for) charity instead of lining their own pockets with 100% of the funds raised by their performance, like most of the rest of the music industry. Oh yeah, and DAMN THEM for being unable to transform America into a utopian paradise...

WORD

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="866010 wrote:

Jeff";p="865703 wrote: As I've actually been saying, I'm actually quite convinced they have not raised any awareness. This is based on my interaction with Rage fans, as well as the fact that the public isn't aware of shit.

:lol:

Oh yeah, you've got us there.

I bow to your watertight research.

Listen Jeff. Every time that RATM appears under a charity banner, they make money for it. They are often the headliners, and atttract a much larger crowd than would otherwise attend. A proportion of the funds raised go to the cause of the day, and anyone who attends gets bombarded with signage, and hears information about the cause via a spokesperson, and sometimes from the onstage performers themselves.

So, apart from money and mass advertising, RATM hasn't done shit.

Oh, and to echo your sentiment, DAMN THEM for promoting (and raising funds for) charity instead of lining their own pockets with 100% of the funds raised by their performance, like most of the rest of the music industry. Oh yeah, and DAMN THEM for being unable to transform America into a utopian paradise...

:roll:

charity? you mean budweiser?

See earlier post listing examples of causes/charities/political agendas.

My point stands.

You guys are pissed off at RATM for being sellouts or commercial or whatever, but they're still a hell of a lot more socially responsible than the vast majority of the music industry. Rah.

i'm not pissed off at ratm
i'm tired of people confusing liking a band's music
with the band mattering politically or socially
preaching marxism and practicing flagrant capitalism is hypocrisy plain and simple
we call politicians and religious leaders on this shit
but not bands?
you say that they've increased awareness, called attention to and brought in funds for certain causes
i'll have to take your word for it
i suspect the band has made more money for them and the system they attack in their lyrics
than they've raised for anything else
these men are the rock and roll equivalent of tv evangelists
these guys have always belonged to the machine they claim to rage against - even before the band existed
rich kids whining about wealth and cashing in on other people's struggles

i hear people talking endless amounts of shit about a guy like bono who appears to actually put some of his money where his mouth is
but these guys get praised
what's the difference?
the music and whether or not you like it
at least van halen never pretended to be righteous

or don't";p="866082 wrote: at least van halen never pretended to be righteous

i think it was the very first guitar player magazine i ever bought
had eddie van halen on the cover and an interview inside (of course)
he made this beautiful statement about "don't play music to save the world or any of that bullshit"
he should've added "don't kick out your singer just because he gets more chicks than you"

What's even happening with those guys these days?

they had this big reunion tour planned but then eddie had a cancer relapse
i think the idea was they wanted to get in one last tour before he kicked it
probably won't happen

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="866075 wrote:They're still a hell of a lot more socially responsible than the vast majority of the music industry. Rah.

Great, so they're the tallest midget at the circus.

More tenuous analogies, please.

I don't even understand what point this argument serves.

RATM never got up and pronounced that they were heroes or anything. The fact that they choose to expend time and energy on issues that align with their principles earns them a modicum of respect from me, as opposed to artists who just get on a soapbox for 30 seconds at an awards ceremony.

If people want to poo-poo them for not being able to effect dramatic change on a massive scale, despite their efforts, well... that's just really small and stupid.

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="866468 wrote:IRATM never got up and pronounced that they were heroes or anything.

This is where we don't concur. I think that's pretty much ALL they did.

What about that ghastly guitar tone?

And the bassist's ugly ugly shoulder tattoos? huh? huh?

Space Mongoloids!!!";p="866468 wrote:I don't even understand what point this argument serves.

RATM never got up and pronounced that they were heroes or anything. The fact that they choose to expend time and energy on issues that align with their principles earns them a modicum of respect from me, as opposed to artists who just get on a soapbox for 30 seconds at an awards ceremony.

If people want to poo-poo them for not being able to effect dramatic change on a massive scale, despite their efforts, well... that's just really small and stupid.

did you actually read what started us mocking this?
and the whole point is that these guys have NOT aligned themselves with the principles that they preach
something about the concept of contradiction that you don't get?

I didn't read all 7 pages originally, no. I just chimed in with my two-bob's worth at a strategic point.

*reads*

OK, I have read it now. Basically, the usual story of you and Jeff having a crack at Cottage, in this case for his "more political change than most" comment.

I kinda agree with him, too. They do have the potential to effect more change than many other artists. RATM are an established "political issues" band, so they don't get poo-pooed as badly as others when they jump on political bandwagons (see: Dixie Chicks). It's expected from Rage/Zach et al. Midnight Oil were similar in that respect.

Contradiction? Meh... I hate to sound like a broken record, but the fact remains that they'e contributed time and energy to causes they believe in, with the result that these issues get more exposure and funding. I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand this.

The fact that they've made money along the way from their own work doesn't detract from the funding and awareness that they've created for these issues, except amongst people who think that anyone who has money is a "commercial sellout".

Whatever. I think your heels are firmly dug in on this point anyway, so... it's gonna have to be swords at dawn, dude.

choose your weapons boys

Mobiesque";p="866509 wrote:What about that ghastly guitar tone?

And the bassist's ugly ugly shoulder tattoos? huh? huh?

i have quiet for the last 7 pages of this shit but you my friend have over stepped the mark.. those tattoos rule!!

Don Eduardo";p="866462 wrote:More tenuous analogies, please.

Saying Rage has done some good because of their support of charities is like saying your cancerous tumor has done some good because you finally dropped those 25 extra pounds...


Given everything I know, it's my opinion that they're more of a problem then a solution. That's all there is to it, really.

You are more of a problem then a solution compared to them mang